Fratello On Air: Stand-Ins For The Submariner, Speedmaster, And Calatrava

Worthy pieces to pinch-hit for the mighty three

October 03, 2023

comments 28

Welcome to another episode of Fratello On Air. This time, we talk about alternatives for three of the most popular watches in existence — the Submariner, Speedmaster, and Calatrava. These watches aren’t one-for-one options but are either meant to give off similar feelings or serve a similar purpose. Enjoy the ride!

Sometimes it’s difficult to justify spending so much money on a watch. Pieces like the Rolex Submariner, Omega Speedmaster, and Patek Philippe Calatrava are pricey selections indeed. In this episode, we offer up some alternatives and talk about why we think they would work. There are some surprising choices here, so feel free to give us your thoughts on suitable replacements in the comments section.

Kettle Kite

Yes, folks, before we get onto the main topic of finding a Submariner stand-in, we have a chat. We must warn you that the first 12 minutes or so contain a lot of shoe content. Then, we mention the recent Certina DS-7, a watch that Mike introduced in a recent article. As far as the Kettle Kite, Mike is wearing his vintage Hamilton Military Chronograph as he celebrates two months of living in England. Balazs is sporting his Grand Seiko 5646-7010 with a Hi-Beat movement.

Replacements for the Submariner, Speedmaster, and Calatrava

Now it’s time for the main event. Essentially, both of us offer an alternative to a much-beloved, dare I say, iconic model. In order, we present the following options.

Rolex Submariner:

Squale Sub-39
Rado Captain Cook 42mm in stainless steel with a black dial

Omega Speedmaster

Fortis Official Cosmonauts Chronograph
Longines Avigation Chrono

Patek Philippe Calatrava

IWC Cal. 89
Grand Seiko SBGW253

That’s all for now, folks! As always, thank you for listening, and if you have any show ideas, feel free to let us know.

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Fratello On Air: Stand-Ins For The Submariner, Speedmaster, And Calatrava

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MG
maciej-g says:

Oct 03, 2023 at 09:58

Trying to find way more affordable alternatives, and sticking to current watches (vintage options always present too many options to choose from, at least for me, but I don’t question your choices). Also, there is this conondrum whether should these alternatives be as close to the “big ones” or not, just in the same spirit of a diver/chronograph/dress watches…

Rolex Submariner: I don’t know, I am not interested in diver’s watches.

Omega Speedmaster:
– Longines Spirit
– Sinn 103 St Sa

Patek Philippe Calatrava
– Junghans Meister Handaufzug Terrassenbau
– Nomos Orion

Reply
DG
GoldenYears says:

Oct 03, 2023 at 10:00

Mike’s vintage Hamilton is so cool 😎

Reply
MB
MarkB says:

Oct 03, 2023 at 10:28

Rolex Submariner – Pretty much every dive watch currently on the market.
Calatrava – Farer Lethbridge
Speedmaster – another Farer, the Chalcott.

Bet that’s saved you a load of cash.

Reply
1. Andrew says:
  
  Oct 03, 2023 at 12:28
  
  I like Farer as a company. I have one of their first edition Stanhopes, and it’s an excellent watch.
  However, I have passed on their newer references as they are too thick. My Stanhope has the excellent ETA 7001 in Top grade. Unfortunately (in my opinion) whenETA would no longer supply movements, Farer switched to Sellita, and their only subsidiary seconds movement is based off the ETA 2801 with an indirectly driven subsidiary seconds, and it’s a thick movement. La Joux Perret now offers an updated 7001 as their D100 (with a longer power reserve) and this would be a far better movement for the manually wound subsidiary seconds watches. If Farer switches to these, and slims their cases back down, I’m in!
  
  Reply
2. LO
  Luciano says:
  
  Oct 03, 2023 at 13:22
  
  The Farer Lethbridge with its cushion case it’s quite different from a Calatrava.
  
  Reply
  1. MB
    MarkB says:
    
    Oct 03, 2023 at 14:51
    
    It’s small, hand-wound, has small seconds and is reasonably dressy. It can fill the slot.
    
    Reply
    1. Andrew says:
      
      Oct 03, 2023 at 16:50
      
      Sort of, I guess. But for me a Calatrava watch should be well under 10mm thick with crystal, as it’s meant to slip easily under a formal cuff and not draw attention to itself.
      Farer have done a good job concealing the thickness with some clever case design, but I think it would be better with a thinner movement so that the total thickness can be gotten down, without visual tricks to diminish it.
      
      Reply
Pelandrone says:

Oct 03, 2023 at 12:00

I am pretty sure there is something in the extensive Grand Seiko catalogue to cost-effectively replace all three.

Submariner, for instance, SBGA461 (SBGA463 if you want grade 5 titanium).

Reply
AM
tmc says:

Oct 03, 2023 at 15:04

but why

Reply
DK
Ayreonaut says:

Oct 03, 2023 at 15:19

“Accept no substitutes.”

Reply
Warky says:

Oct 03, 2023 at 15:20

To actually achieve this goal with a watch of similar quality you really need to go pre-owned, which is such a large market it is actually difficult to know where to begin. For the sake of ease I have just looked at neo vintage as that is where you get the best balance of price and modern(ish) construction:

At a very general level I would suggest the following – there are a number of different versions to be found from the 1995 to 2005 period:

Sub (ignoring the very obvious Black Bay 58s available for buttons in the flooded pre owned market)
IWC Aquatimer

Speedmaster
Blancpain Leman Flyback chronograph in steel.

Calatrava
Blancpain Villeret extra plat in choice of gold.

All of these are available for significantly below the retail price of the “icon”, as well made and specified and still have a recognisable brand name on the dial.

Reply
1Gav1 says:

Oct 03, 2023 at 16:04

Sub
– Tudor BB 58

Speedy
– Hanhart 417ES on Pioneer bracelet

Calatrava
– Dornbluth Quintus Jubilar 38.5mm

Reply
Andrew says:

Oct 03, 2023 at 16:56

I know this will be controversial for many, but there’s nothing especially complex or special about the construction of either the Submariner or the Speedmaster. They’re both machine/CNC milled watches on an automated, high volume production line. It is very straightforward to find equivalent quality (if by that you mean intrinsic quality of components and assembly) for far less money. With both those watches, you are paying probably 20x what they actually cost to make, so if you find a manufacturer marking up only 5-fold (as an example) you will get equivalent quality for a quarter the price.
The exception really is the PP, which has a large component of hand assembly and finishing, and you will struggle to find anything of equivalent quality for substantially less.

Reply
1. DK
  Ayreonaut says:
  
  Oct 03, 2023 at 19:03
  
  No doubt the Patek is costly to make, but I’m pretty sure they mark them up as much as everyone else.
  
  Reply
2. SC
  Tam O’ Banter says:
  
  Oct 04, 2023 at 08:26
  
  PP’s finishing has been at least partially machined for some time now. Lots of cost-cutting going on there.
  
  Reply
Brian-Waller says:

Oct 03, 2023 at 17:25

Meh, can’t swing a stick without hitting some sort of Sub homage or substitute. Too easy. For the calatrava, I’m going to echo the sentiment of others in that vintage is one’s best option. IWC has some nice examples with 85x series movements. Vacheron Constantin gives you the 4870, 6732, and some from the 42002 line. I’m sure there are others with manual winds. Some of the Chopard LUCs are close enough in spirit and quality to pass muster as well.

Reply
xbarx1 says:

Oct 03, 2023 at 17:26

Great listen and short read. I suspect everyone has a favorite diver, chronograph, and dress watch for the Submariner, Speedmaster, and Calatrava. The question is does the substitute actually fill the void and quell the desire to own the classic?

I did see a vintage Calatrava I thought I had to have but could never find one for sale. And I’m not a dress watch guy, so the idea of owning one faded away. I have a Sea Dweller and a Speedmaster, both are the longest running reference numbers, but the ones I actually wanted.

I still buy other watches, mostly vintage. Collecting never stops. I’ll be dead and gone, and days later a package will be delivered to my house with a vintage watch. 🙂

Reply
Iman says:

Oct 03, 2023 at 18:30

Stand inside? Thats so snobby and condescending that I didn’t even bother to read the article. It’s the problem with the watch industry and why I’ve lost interest…it’s like the only watches that matter avd seem to have any right to exist are Rolex, Omega and the Trinity. Makes me gag.

Reply
1. Mike Stockton says:
  
  Oct 04, 2023 at 09:27
  
  Seems more like the problem with the general world now is reading a headline and running off with an opinion on the matter 😉
  
  If you’d read or listen, we certainly never said these three pieces were the best – simply icons of their genre – and we offered up alternatives…
  
  Reply
esper says:

Oct 03, 2023 at 19:03

A thin vintage inspired dive watch without crown guards cannot be a submariner alternative. So, Squale Sub 39, BlackBay58, Rado Captain Cook 42 are certainly NOT alternatives to the much manlier and chunkier submariner. New Longines Hydroconquest GMT could be a suitable alternative.

Fortis Cosmonaut and Longines Avigation are also not going to be an alternative for anyone looking for something similar to the Speedmaster. Both are very different design-wise. Bulova Lunar Pilot is much more obvious, maybe Tudor BB Chrono, if someone wants to spend more (I’m not that interested in chronographs).

Reply
DL
puredcl says:

Oct 03, 2023 at 19:05

maybe for the Sub ~ Serica 5303. And the Calatrava ~ Merci Instruments LMM-01 Archiwatch

Reply
1. esper says:
  
  Oct 03, 2023 at 22:10
  
  So, any random automatic dive watch is a submariner alternative?
  
  Reply
  1. DL
    puredcl says:
    
    Oct 04, 2023 at 10:17
    
    to elaborate, the Serica has many nods to the Rolex … the sub was released in march 1953, which is why Serica called their model a 5303; the 3,6,9 markers are the same as those on a no-date sub etc.
    
    Reply
    1. esper says:
      
      Oct 04, 2023 at 20:54
      
      Ok, so the Serica is close to the Submariner from the 50’s… But that’s probably an alternative only for people who like older watches. I’m probably in a minority, because the only non-modern watches I like are old g-shocks 😀.
      
      Reply
RV
ralfybaby says:

Oct 03, 2023 at 21:48

Blancpain FF 500 fathoms GT
ALS 1815 chronograph
Vacheron patrimony 85180

Oh wait. Did you mean they had to be cheaper?

Reply
1. HS
  harveyspecter says:
  
  Oct 05, 2023 at 01:18
  
  Well said, let’s replace with something more interesting/valuable not with these third-tier options. The only one with some dignity and history is the longines.
  
  Reply
HS
harveyspecter says:

Oct 05, 2023 at 01:17

if you buy a Squale Sub-39 as a Rolex Submariner replacement you are just mad. Same for Seiko vs Calatrava.

My suggestion is to keep your hard-earned money and get something you really like e.g. there is no replacement for a Speedmaster which provides a lot of value. Some of the brands mentioned (e.g. Squale) have zero appeal and zero value.

Reply
Peter Stuermer says:

Oct 06, 2023 at 00:33

I am a watch collector and have been for over 50 years, and has been a blast. Unfortunately all the fun has gone away, because all you see now is what a great deal at $4,000 watch is, in my opinion no watch should be over $ 500 other than Gold high end etc. Rolex is overpriced so is omega and all high brand watches. I have omegas,Rolex, you name it, but it was fun to find one in good condition and enjoyed the increase in value over a period of years.now it is all about profit.

Reply